[Pirata Morado]

I wonder what would happen if he played for the M's. That would be an interesting paradox!

Hamilton hit today his 8th HR so far in the season! The whole Mariners have hit 11 as a team!

He's hitting above .400 and has 18 RBI already.

I wonder what would happen if he played for the Mariners? Would he hit .235 and 2 HR? Is it something about the food or air in Seattle?

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

I'm not really much of a fan of Hamilton. I did find myself wishing we had someone like Matt Kemp on our roster though.

[Pirata Morado]

AlMoStLeGeNdArY, on 23 April 2012 - 06:12 PM, said:

I'm not really much of a fan of Hamilton. I did find myself wishing we had someone like Matt Kemp on our roster though.

I don't want him with the M's. But you have to admit that the guy is a serious threat. I was more wondering why do so many good hitting prospects come here and fail.

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Pirata Morado, on 23 April 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I don't want him with the M's. But you have to admit that the guy is a serious threat. I was more wondering why do so many good hitting prospects come here and fail.

It's probably has to do with something the M's are doing. It really doesn't make sense for us to be unable to develop a MOTO bat.

[phredmojo]

Pirata Morado, on 23 April 2012 - 06:20 PM, said:

I don't want him with the M's. But you have to admit that the guy is a serious threat. I was more wondering why do so many good hitting prospects come here and fail.

because in reality they weren't that good in the first place, just over hyped

[Grumpy]

phredmojo, on 23 April 2012 - 07:49 PM, said:

because in reality they weren't that good in the first place, just over hyped

Have to admit I am getting a little concerned about Smoak. I hope he can straighten it out like when he carried the team last year before his dad died and he injured both his thumbs.

[Orlandu]

He'd be on the DL right now. Don't worry though, that will still happen in Texas at some point.

[Shaggy]

When we picked Smoak up I was worried about his hitting. While he was inTexas, I attributed his good hitting due to the fact that opposing pitchers were more willing to pitch to him than Vladimir Guerrero or Josh Hamilton who he was sandwiched between. I used the term that he was "protected" being between them. The puritans had a meltdown because I phrasing but I wasn't using it in it purest sense. I would have rather had Moreland.

On the flip side, the M's tend to be very impatient with their hitting prospects. Did Adam Jones or Shin-soo Choo really get a chance with the big club?

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Shaggy, on 24 April 2012 - 10:23 AM, said:

When we picked Smoak up I was worried about his hitting. While he was inTexas, I attributed his good hitting due to the fact that opposing pitchers were more willing to pitch to him than Vladimir Guerrero or Josh Hamilton who he was sandwiched between. I used the term that he was "protected" being between them. The puritans had a meltdown because I phrasing but I wasn't using it in it purest sense. I would have rather had Moreland.

On the flip side, the M's tend to be very impatient with their hitting prospects. Did Adam Jones or Shin-soo Choo really get a chance with the big club?

If the m's kept Jones Choo and Asdrubal we'd be serious contenders right now. Our line up would be sick.

With that said though if ifs and ands were pots and pans the world would be a kitchen.

This post has been edited by AlMoStLeGeNdArY: 24 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

[Huindekmi]

Oh, you want to have some fun? Go look at the 2012 stats of the young guys this team jettisoned without having given them a real chance. How would you like to have some of these guys on your team?

Adam Jones         .303/.333/.621/.955 in 69 plate appearances
Shin Soo Choo      .250/.382/.339/.722 in 68 plate appearances
Asdrubal Cabrerra  .282/.333/.513/.846 in 42 plate appearances
Brian LaHair       .361/.467/.639/1.106 in 45 plate appearances

Now compare that to the M's aggregate stats at CF, LF, SS and 1B -- the positions those guys would have been playing...

CF  .207/.281/.345/.626
LF  .226/.290/.355/.645
SS  .180/.317/.320/.637
1B  .227/.271/.348/.620

Now, does that mean those same guys would be producing at those levels had they stayed in Seattle? Nope.
In fact, I'm betting that they would have washed out. There seems to be something about Seattle - the coaching, the player development, the management of young players, SOMETHING - that seems to mess kids up.

I think the key is to get the kids out of Seattle before they've been "taught" by a system that has no idea how to develop talent. Those are the kids who flourish.

The ones the M's fully develop on their own and then give a real chance to play and be coached at the MLB level (Balentien, Clement, Lopez, etc.) those are the ones who seem to lose whatever strengths they once had in their game and eventually flame out. Ackley and Clement once had incredible batting eyes. By the time the M's finished with them, they were swinging at everything. Lopez used to have incredible pull power. After the M's spent a couple years trying to get him to hit everything the other way, he was lost.

OK. I may be overreacting. It just feels like the M's break all their shiny new toys.

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Huindekmi, on 24 April 2012 - 12:34 PM, said:

Oh, you want to have some fun? Go look at the 2012 stats of the young guys this team jettisoned without having given them a real chance. How would you like to have some of these guys on your team?

Adam Jones         .303/.333/.621/.955 in 69 plate appearances
Shin Soo Choo      .250/.382/.339/.722 in 68 plate appearances
Asdrubal Cabrerra  .282/.333/.513/.846 in 42 plate appearances
Brian LaHair       .361/.467/.639/1.106 in 45 plate appearances

Now compare that to the M's aggregate stats at CF, LF, SS and 1B -- the positions those guys would have been playing...

CF  .207/.281/.345/.626
LF  .226/.290/.355/.645
SS  .180/.317/.320/.637
1B  .227/.271/.348/.620

Now, does that mean those same guys would be producing at those levels had they stayed in Seattle? Nope.
In fact, I'm betting that they would have washed out. There seems to be something about Seattle - the coaching, the player development, the management of young players, SOMETHING - that seems to mess kids up.

I think the key is to get the kids out of Seattle before they've been "taught" by a system that has no idea how to develop talent. Those are the kids who flourish.

The ones the M's fully develop on their own and then give a real chance to play and be coached at the MLB level (Balentien, Clement, Lopez, etc.) those are the ones who seem to lose whatever strengths they once had in their game and eventually flame out. Ackley and Clement once had incredible batting eyes. By the time the M's finished with them, they were swinging at everything. Lopez used to have incredible pull power. After the M's spent a couple years trying to get him to hit everything the other way, he was lost.

OK. I may be overreacting. It just feels like the M's break all their shiny new toys.

That's probably the case Hui. We haven't had a legit bat come out of our system in a long time . It more likely that it's the coaching than anything the continued inability for us to find players. For example look at Mike Morse with the M's he wasn't the type of player he's become with the Nats.

[Huindekmi]

I would have included Morse (my former adopt-a-player), but since he's on the DL and hasn't played this year, he didn't fit into the list.

But... yeah... another really good example. The kid was jerked around, moved from position to position and given a random scattering of playing time. Despite having success at the plate (he hit .300/.365/.397/.762 in 337 plate appearances for the M's over the course of 4 seasons), he was told his only route to the majors was as a utility guy and deemed expendable. Swapping him for the older, less versatile, weaker hitting Ryan Langerhans really made the team better.

[anunderwaterguy]

AlMoStLeGeNdArY, on 24 April 2012 - 01:05 PM, said:

That's probably the case Hui. We haven't had a legit bat come out of our system in a long time . It more likely that it's the coaching than anything the continued inability for us to find players. For example look at Mike Morse with the M's he wasn't the type of player he's become with the Nats.

Who was the last one?

[wufners]

anunderwaterguy, on 24 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Who was the last one?

Adam Jones? Sin Shoo choo? Asdrubal Cabrera? Mike Morse? David Ortiz?

I think it was espn who ran an article counting which system had produced the most mlb starters on the opening day lineups. The Mariners were first.

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

anunderwaterguy, on 24 April 2012 - 07:56 PM, said:

Who was the last one?

For me it's Arod. I don't count the players who we traded away like choo jones or caberra.

[anunderwaterguy]

wufners, on 24 April 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

Adam Jones? Sin Shoo choo? Asdrubal Cabrera? Mike Morse? David Ortiz?

I think it was espn who ran an article counting which system had produced the most mlb starters on the opening day lineups. The Mariners were first.

Indeed, but in terms of players who were here long enough to contribute to the team. I was going to say A-Rod as well, which is quite something when he made his MLB debut in 1994.

Personally, I don't buy into the idea that there's a problem with the Mariners that prevents them from developing offensive players, I just think they're suffering from a series of dreadful decisions (most of them made by Bavasi). Hindsight is 20/20, but trades like Eduardo Perez for Cabrera didn't make sense at the time, far less now.

[senior octobre]

Hamilton is a cry baby. He always complains to blue when he's rung up. If I was blue, I'd make the strike zone so big for him.

[muddyfrogwater]

I'd love to have Josh Hamilton in the outfield. BUT! Will the M's renew Ichiro's contract? Either way, I'd expect the M's to bid heavily on Hamilton next year. You have to make the Rangers pay a premium to get him back. It would allow the M's to package Carp and/or Smoak and/or Saunders as well. I don't think he'll get a Fielder/Pujols contract, but he could easily get a Jason Werth 7 yr. deal and the M's need to drive the price as high as possible.

[tradedollarnut]

The Mariners will NEVER sign a recovering addict who recently fell off the wagon. What would the church ladies think???

[phredmojo]

Not true they would. But it would have to be a washed up one, not someone currently good