[phredmojo]

glmuskie, on 10 March 2012 - 09:33 AM, said:

Anyone willing to take bets on Kawasaki NOT making the team at this point? He's been very good so far. If the M's were thinking of breaking camp without him, I wouldn't doubt that Yamauchi would exert his influence to change their minds.

My only problem with Kawasaki is that if you have him, Figgins, and Ichiro all in the lineup at the same time. That's too much of your lineup with zero power, and we know what sort of offense that leads to.

and how is that any different then having ichiro, figgins and ryan in at the same time, which is what will happen on days kawasaki doesn't play

This post has been edited by phredmojo: 10 March 2012 - 09:38 AM

[glmuskie]

phredmojo, on 10 March 2012 - 09:38 AM, said:

and how is that any different then having ichiro, figgins and ryan in at the same time, which is what will happen on days kawasaki doesn't play

Good point

The problem is of course having no power from power positions (3b and RF)

[DocMilo]

glmuskie, on 10 March 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

Good point

The problem is of course having no power from power positions (3b and RF)

3B will hopefully be solved by Seager/Liddi/Catricala. My hope is on Seager since I think he's the best glove of the three. RF? Well that's what this whole things is about. Can we call it Ichiro's new approach vs stance or swing? His approach has changed because his role has changed. Whether it's 20 homers or 15 homers and 5 triples, I think we have to wait and see if our RFer is going to be considered a power bat or not. So far in 12 ab's Ichiro has 1 double. Let's see if he can get that slugging up into the .450 range by any means possible.

[anunderwaterguy]

DocMilo, on 11 March 2012 - 05:14 AM, said:

RF? Well that's what this whole things is about. Can we call it Ichiro's new approach vs stance or swing? His approach has changed because his role has changed. Whether it's 20 homers or 15 homers and 5 triples, I think we have to wait and see if our RFer is going to be considered a power bat or not. So far in 12 ab's Ichiro has 1 double. Let's see if he can get that slugging up into the .450 range by any means possible.

Personally, I find it strange that we're now in an all or nothing situation with respect to Ichiro's new approach. In fact, I have a hard time agreeing with the idea that hitting for power is the solution to his problems in the first place. The argument is that his average has dropped so he needs to compensate for that by improving his SLG, but why focus on power and not taking some more walks to boost his OBP? That's also a legitimate route to making him a productive player again, but it seems to have been discarded as an option.

There's always been this idea that Ichiro could hit numerous more HRs every year if he wanted to, but that he chose not to do so to boost his hit totals. Well, the exact same thing has been said about walks. His statement about "fans not coming to see him take a walk, but to get a hit" has been used as a stick to beat him with on more than one occasion, but it implies the same thing: that he could take more walks if he wanted to, but throughout his career he's made a conscious decision not to do so. As far as I'm concerned it's far more plausible that Ichiro could boost his OBP by taking more walks than it is that he'll suddenly morph into a middle of the order hitter with power. The former is an adjustment, the latter is a complete reinvention.

[phredmojo]

Thats what happens when your manager puts a entitled 700 slg hitter in the 3 hole instead of where he belongs, the 9 hole.

[DocMilo]

phredmojo, on 11 March 2012 - 08:24 AM, said:

Thats what happens when your manager puts a entitled 700 slg hitter in the 3 hole instead of where he belongs, the 9 hole.

Just because Ichiro is starting in the 3 doesn't mean he'll end there. Both Ichiro and HWSNBN are now replaceable. I see the later a util guy that loses playing time as the season goes on because he's out of gas. Ichiro doesn't have to be Paul Konerko by any means. Ichiro just has to OPS .800ish by any means necessary. If he doesn't do that then I feel comfortable enough with Wedge to move him to 6 or 7 if there are kids mashing. If things keep spiraling then he can keep moving down.

I'm just not sure that Ichiro won't OPS .800. We should have a good feel by the end of spring. Ichiro has 1 double so far. It would really be nice to see him rack up some more xbh's. Ackley is looking pretty awesome w/2 2B, 2 3B and a HR already. It's just going to be interesting to see how it works itself out. If Ichiro thinks his new role is to drive the ball, hopefully he's more selective with his pitch selection which leads to more BB, a higher OBP.

[Vidya]

You won't see Ichiro's power as much in his HR total, as in his doubles and triples numbers. I agree that he also might become more selective at the plate, which could result in a higher walk rate. I don't agree that the Mariners are doomed to failure if they don't get a lot of HR's out of the RF and 3B positions.

My expectation is that if his OPS does not get above .700, Ichiro won't be in the #3 spot for very long. It's also my hope that a few of the younger bats will step up and demand MOTO spots. If there are only one or two other players on the team with an OPS above .700, then there wouldn't be a reason to move him from the spot. He needs to be replaced in the #3 spot by someone who has proved at the MLB level that he deserves it. I can't imagine Wedge giving anyone the spot based on his AAA numbers, or small MLB sample size.