[phredmojo]

MtGrizzly, on 25 April 2012 - 05:08 PM, said:

Is anyone going to trade with Jack again?

Quote

Cashman says that in no way does he believe the Mariners had any knowledge of an injury. Says Pineda was a fully healthy player in January

This post has been edited by phredmojo: 25 April 2012 - 08:39 PM

[Shaggy]

I saw this on a Yankees forum:

Quote

Re: Michael Pineda Out for @012 With Labrum Tear

I thought things like this only happen on the METS

[lisa mariner]

Plenty of lingering questions following Pineda's diagnosis | LoHud Yankees blog

some good links here (and plenty of Yankees fans comments)

Quote

Did the Mariners know something?
Brian Cashman: “We got a healthy player to the best of everyone’s knowledge.”

Cashman went out of his way yesterday to say that he does no believe the Mariners were hiding something, and Mariners general manager Jack Zduriencik has said the same thing.

“We had full access to his medicals, which were clean,” Cashman said. “We had the opportunity to do a full physical exam, which we did, which came out clean. Michael has never had a shoulder issue nor has he complained of one with the Mariners, nor has he ever had any tests on the shoulder with the Mariners. This is just an unfortunate circumstance that can happen.”

Quote

Did last year’s second half raise any red flags?
Brian Cashman: “There’s a little bit of a myth here.”

The myth Cashman’s refering to is the idea that Pineda’s second half was significantly worse than his first half last season. His ERA suggests that’s the case, but his strikeouts-per-nine and walks-per-nine stayed almost exactly the same (strikeouts-per-nine actually went up a little bit). As for velocity, that stayed relatively consistent as well except for his last start when he was pitching on 10-days rest and had gone through a kind of odd September as the Mariners tried to limit his workload.

“The bottom line, they were very similar, first half, second half,” Cashman said. “The important statistical categories that kind of measure how someone is pitching were fairly close, and his velocity in the first half and second half were fairly close. It wasn’t a radical change that’s been written about.”

Cashman isn’t the only one who feels this way. FanGraphs wrote the same thing immediately after the trade. There is this notion that the Yankees should have known they were getting damaged goods, but I’m just not sure the evidence is there.

[Vidya]

It's not like Pineda is done. He could still come back strong next year. Montero and Noesi look good right now, but neither has proven himself. The move was logical for both teams, but it is filled with risk for both sides.

That may be the reality of the situation, but I really love to watch Yankee fans squirm, and go crazy on the team. That's the best part of the deal so far.

[muddyfrogwater]

Props to Taro's insight. He was certain that Pineda was a huge injury risk.

[phredmojo]

Vidya, on 26 April 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

It's not like Pineda is done. He could still come back strong next year. Montero and Noesi look good right now, but neither has proven himself. The move was logical for both teams, but it is filled with risk for both sides.

That may be the reality of the situation, but I really love to watch Yankee fans squirm, and go crazy on the team. That's the best part of the deal so far.

noesi looks good? if an 8.83 era and 1.67 whip look good, i would hate to see what looks bad

[Vidya]

phredmojo, on 26 April 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

noesi looks good? if an 8.83 era and 1.67 whip look good, i would hate to see what looks bad

That's still better than a player who is on the DL all season. Obviously I wasn't looking at their current stats. Both Noesi and Montero are not producing. I believe Montero will eventually be very good, but Noesi may not be long for the rotation. Even if he goes back to the bullpen or to Tacoma, I'm expecting value from him.

[senior octobre]

Pineda youtube

[phredmojo]

ouch, first pnieda now campos

http://www.examiner....e-disabled-list

[Dag Gummit]

phredmojo, on 05 May 2012 - 06:41 PM, said:

ouch, first pnieda now campos

http://www.examiner....e-disabled-list

That's just brutal.

And honestly, if I'm Cashman/ Steinbrenner, I'd become insistent that team physicals for signings and trades become much more comprehensive in the future. It's my understanding that the damage causing major shoulder injuries like Pineda's are longterm and that should have come up.

And if Campos' elbow is also serious, that probably should have, as well.

[glmuskie]

Dag Gummit, on 05 May 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

That's just brutal.

And honestly, if I'm Cashman/ Steinbrenner, I'd become insistent that team physicals for signings and trades become much more comprehensive in the future. It's my understanding that the damage causing major shoulder injuries like Pineda's are longterm and that should have come up.

And if Campos' elbow is also serious, that probably should have, as well.

Bear in mind that Campos and Pineda were *chosen* by the Yankees. Very likely they could have picked another prospect besides Campos - If I'm not mistaken, it's common in trades for a GM to say, 'OK, you can have your pick of any of these 3 prospects'. And, they obviously felt Pineda was the best young arm they could trade Montero for.

An objective observer looking at all the M's pitching prospects could very easily have singled out Campos as the very best of the bunch.

So the burden is on the Yankees to evaluate which players have mechanics that are prone to having trouble; and also to thoroughly check the medicals as you describe.

Mostly I think this is just bad luck on the Yankees part. It's part of the risk in any trade. You can trade for Bedard and then he gets hurt for a year, for example... :-)

[wufners]

Could it be the Mariners have a better medical staff than the New York Yankees? How far we've come from the horror of the early and mid-oughts with Dr. Ped-whatever-it-was ran his reign of terror.

The first Montero trade fell apart because the M's doctors didn't like what they saw on one of the infielders coming back to us. The Yankees grumbled that the Mariners were just stalling to get Texas to ante up. But a month later that player went down with a an injury and I believe hasn't played much since. M's doc 1, Yankees zilch.

I don't believe Jack knowingly traded damaged goods in Pineda. But even if he did, the trade was not finalized until both players had had physicals by the others' doctors. They had their chance to find an injury and back off. Yet they failed to detect anything wrong. Heck, they appear to have failed to note he was overweight based on how surprised the coaching staff was when Pineda reported. M's docs 2, Yankees zilch.

With the M's choosing Noesi over Nova, if I'm a Yankee fan I'm biting my finger nails over the future health of Nova.

[Schuxu]

wufners, on 06 May 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

With the M's choosing Noesi over Nova, if I'm a Yankee fan I'm biting my finger nails over the future health of Nova.

With Pineda and Campos coming up through our system and not having spent that much time in the Yankees organisation before getting hurt I'm also biting my finger nails over the future of our own youngsters.

[MtGrizzly]

Dag Gummit, on 05 May 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

That's just brutal.

And honestly, if I'm Cashman/ Steinbrenner, I'd become insistent that team physicals for signings and trades become much more comprehensive in the future. It's my understanding that the damage causing major shoulder injuries like Pineda's are longterm and that should have come up.

And if Campos' elbow is also serious, that probably should have, as well.

The Yankees put Pineda through an MRI and didn't find anything. It's quite possible that he was completely healthy but came to camp out of shape, tried to over throw the ball and tore his shoulder up. Pitchers are fragile.

[Grumpy]

MtGrizzly, on 07 May 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

The Yankees put Pineda through an MRI and didn't find anything. It's quite possible that he was completely healthy but came to camp out of shape, tried to over throw the ball and tore his shoulder up. Pitchers are fragile.

Perhaps the Ms are ahead of the curve on risk assessment.

Taro for example voiced significant concerns last year over Pineda's high risk pitching motion, IIRC specifically regarding the shoulder.

[lisa mariner]

Oh dear, not exactly a development that will hasten his return...

NY Post

Quote

Injured Yankees pitcher Michael Pineda was busted for DUI in Tampa, Fla., on a busy road early this morning after a cop spotted his speeding, "weaving" Nissan SUV driving without its headlights on, cops said.
The burly Pineda, 23, "had a fixed gaze and his eyes were bloodshot, watery and glassy," a Tampa police officer wrote after pulling the 23-year-old hurler over at 2:35 a.m. on North Dale Mabry Highway.
"I could smell a distinct odor of an alcoholic beverage coming from his breath, and his speech was slurred," the cop wrote about Pineda, who was an All-Star in his rookie season last year with the Seattle Mariners.

The Domnican Republic native's blood-alcohol level was found to be .128 and .125 in two separate readings, according to police records. He was charged with driving under the influence of alcohol, and released on a $500 bond from jail shortly before noon today.
Yankees General Manager Brian Cashman told The Post “no comment” when asked about Pineda’s arrest.