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Twins @ M's 05/04/2012


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#21
Pirata Morado

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We just beat ourselves again.

Fire someone

Fire them all
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#22
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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We just beat ourselves again.

Fire someone

Fire them all



GM Manager hitting coach pitching coach b3nch coach 1st n 3rd bass coach ball boy scouting the PR guy all the coaches in the minor league can all get a pink slip as far as I'm concered. There's something wrong with this org.
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#23
MikeB20634

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When Vargas lost the decision he tried to tear the protective padding off a pole. I heard he looked P'O d during the post game as well.
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#24
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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When Vargas lost the decision he tried to tear the protective padding off a pole. I heard he looked P'O d during the post game as well.


Hmmm, trade him. I couldn't care less bout Vargas TBH. I wonder what we can get for him.
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#25
MtGrizzly

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GM Manager hitting coach pitching coach b3nch coach 1st n 3rd bass coach ball boy scouting the PR guy all the coaches in the minor league can all get a pink slip as far as I'm concered. There's something wrong with this org.

How many GM's, managers, hitting coaches, pitching coaches, et al are you willing to cycle through? What is this - the fifth set since Pat left? The problem is upstairs from of them, man.

The pop-culture definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. How about the organization try something different for once?
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You can't sit on a lead and run a few plays into the line and just kill the clock. You've got to throw the ball over the goddamn plate and give the other man his chance. That's why baseball is the greatest game of them all. ~Earl Weaver

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#26
Chaos_Effect

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We have to get new owners . . . someone who cares enough to want the team to win. Unfortunately Nintendo doesn't even care enough to sell the team. I'm not sure they even know it exists.
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#27
DocMilo

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We have to get new owners . . . someone who cares enough to want the team to win. Unfortunately Nintendo doesn't even care enough to sell the team. I'm not sure they even know it exists.

LOL
I bet Texas fans are calling for ownership's head after their 3 game losing streak. How about down in Anaheim? The Angels are behind us in the standings. I love it how people expect way too much out of this club. When Figgins is gone, this team will probably be the youngest in all of baseball. These are a bunch of kids learning to play the game at the highest level. The M's tied up their own hands with veterans for years and traded away what little farm system they had trying to avoid rebuilding. Now that we're finally rebuilding the fans are outraged. Woohoo!

This club has a bunch of young kids. When they click, it's going to be awesome to watch. Give em time.

I love Vargas' attitude post game. He was pissed.

Vargas said the team isn't taking much solace in the close games.

"I mean, a loss is a loss regardless of whether it's 10-0 or 1-0,'' Vargas said. "It's almost harder to take the close ones sometimes because you feel like you give so much and there's really no reward.

"We need to turn things around right now,'' he added. "This isn't going to cut it, that's for sure.''

The kids have to find it for themselves. Stop blaming the GM. Stop blaming the manager. Stop blaming Nintendo. We're a month into the season and really, who expected much more than what we've seen so far? This is a young team that's got a lot to learn. In June or July things will mesh and they will get hot. They will play some really good ball and hopefully will finish off the season close to .500.
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#28
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LOL
I bet Texas fans are calling for ownership's head after their 3 game losing streak. How about down in Anaheim? The Angels are behind us in the standings. I love it how people expect way too much out of this club. When Figgins is gone, this team will probably be the youngest in all of baseball. These are a bunch of kids learning to play the game at the highest level. The M's tied up their own hands with veterans for years and traded away what little farm system they had trying to avoid rebuilding. Now that we're finally rebuilding the fans are outraged. Woohoo!

This club has a bunch of young kids. When they click, it's going to be awesome to watch. Give em time.

I love Vargas' attitude post game. He was pissed.

The kids have to find it for themselves. Stop blaming the GM. Stop blaming the manager. Stop blaming Nintendo. We're a month into the season and really, who expected much more than what we've seen so far? This is a young team that's got a lot to learn. In June or July things will mesh and they will get hot. They will play some really good ball and hopefully will finish off the season close to .500.


While I admire your positive approach, Doc, I think the arguments you supply in this case is not very compelling. Despite their 3-game losing streak, Texas is the defending 2-time AL champion with a lineup stacked with offense and a staff stacked with great pitching. The Angels? Sure, they're in last place, but based on recent history that's an aberration that won't last long. If we had a manager in Seattle with the kind of sustained success that Mike Scioscia has enjoyed in Anaheim, there would be few people calling for his head this early in the season.

And while it's true that we are finally rebuilding, we are doing it with such a massive up-front reliance on a plethora of kids, if not unprecedented then nearly so, that I think we are seeing more struggling by the young'uns than is necessary. Not only that, but we could see their development stunted at least in some cases (though I admit that point is debatable).

And this takes us back to ownership. You can tell people to stop blaming Nintendo (a metaphor for ownership), but again you cannot begin to compare the financially timid, miserly and visionless ownership in Seattle with Texas and LAAAAAAA. They run out a poor product for a decade, drive attendance into the ground, cry poverty, and then "unleash the beast" by, of all things, cutting payroll even more and making their rebuild so youth-heavy that they have no veteran besides an aging Ichiro supplying any significant help at all in the lineup. So again, you can tell people to stop. But they won't. Not when ownership has handed them ladle after ladle of culpability soup.

Edited by DaddyO, 05 May 2012 - 08:29 AM.

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---------------------

There's an old saying, "The Proof Is In The Pudding."

Mariners 2012: It's Puddin' Time
Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?


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#29
DocMilo

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While I admire your positive approach, Doc, I think the arguments you supply in this case is not very compelling. Despite their 3-game losing streak, Texas is the defending 2-time AL champion with a lineup stacked with offense and a staff stacked with great pitching. The Angels? Sure, they're in last place, but based on recent history that's an aberration that won't last long. If we had a manager in Seattle with the kind of sustained success that Mike Scioscia has enjoyed in Anaheim, there would be few people calling for his head this early in the season.

And while it's true that we are finally rebuilding, we are doing it with such a massive up-front reliance on a plethora of kids, if not unprecedented then nearly so, that I think we are seeing more struggling by the young'uns than is necessary. Not only that, but we could see their development stunted at least in some cases (though I admit that point is debatable).

And this takes us back to ownership. You can tell people to stop blaming Nintendo (a metaphor for ownership), but again you cannot begin to compare the financially timid, miserly and visionless ownership in Seattle with Texas and LAAAAAAA. They run out a poor product for a decade, drive attendance into the ground, cry poverty, and then "unleash the beast" by, of all things, cutting payroll even more and making their rebuild so youth-heavy that they have no veteran besides an aging Ichiro supplying any significant help at all in the lineup. So again, you can tell people to stop. But they won't. Not when ownership has handed them ladle after ladle of culpability soup.

I was joking when I was comparing the Rangers and Angels. The M's aren't relying on kids only, they have Ichiro, Ryan, Figgins and Gutierrez as veteran presense. Unfortunately, the vets aren't getting it done. The M's have never had the volume of kids to play. Otherwise the M's would have been shopping the crappy FA market this year bringing in Jack Custs and Scott Spezios. Maybe the M's could have picked up Raul Ibanez this offseason.

Now isn't the time to spend money. Now is time to build a foundation, which the M's haven't had in ages. The M's have had zero to build on. Why add payroll when there is nothing to add it to? Now is time to watch the kids struggle, learn and grow up.
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#30
phredmojo

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I was joking when I was comparing the Rangers and Angels. The M's aren't relying on kids only, they have Ichiro, Ryan, Figgins and Gutierrez as veteran presense. Unfortunately, the vets aren't getting it done. The M's have never had the volume of kids to play. Otherwise the M's would have been shopping the crappy FA market this year bringing in Jack Custs and Scott Spezios. Maybe the M's could have picked up Raul Ibanez this offseason.

Now isn't the time to spend money. Now is time to build a foundation, which the M's haven't had in ages. The M's have had zero to build on. Why add payroll when there is nothing to add it to? Now is time to watch the kids struggle, learn and grow up.

thats exactly the attitude that has and will continue to lead to dcreased attendance and revenue year in and year out. i'm not spending my money to watch this crap team and i'm far from alone
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#31
lisa mariner

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I was joking when I was comparing the Rangers and Angels. The M's aren't relying on kids only, they have Ichiro, Ryan, Figgins and Gutierrez as veteran presense. Unfortunately, the vets aren't getting it done. The M's have never had the volume of kids to play. Otherwise the M's would have been shopping the crappy FA market this year bringing in Jack Custs and Scott Spezios. Maybe the M's could have picked up Raul Ibanez this offseason.

Now isn't the time to spend money. Now is time to build a foundation, which the M's haven't had in ages. The M's have had zero to build on. Why add payroll when there is nothing to add it to? Now is time to watch the kids struggle, learn and grow up.


Amen.

This is what I expected and was prepared for (and, yes, even looked forward to) for this season. Of course there's frustration while in the heat of the game and it's hard to not let the record matter. But, for the most part, these youngsters are learning on the job and will be better for it. Not all the young talent will make it but, they have to be given the chance to play so evaluations and determinations can be made. This is the time to establish the "core" on the journey from desperate, to decent, to dynasty.
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#32
DocMilo

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thats exactly the attitude that has and will continue to lead to dcreased attendance and revenue year in and year out. i'm not spending my money to watch this crap team and i'm far from alone

Oh yeah. And spending $100 million on a loosing team is going to increase attendance. Year in and year out? Sure we can all agree that the M's screwed the pooch. But to say things are business as usual is far from fair. We are watching the beginning of something special. If you can't appreciate what they are trying to do now, well keep your money when they start winning, too.
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#33
phredmojo

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Oh yeah. And spending $100 million on a loosing team is going to increase attendance. Year in and year out? Sure we can all agree that the M's screwed the pooch. But to say things are business as usual is far from fair. We are watching the beginning of something special. If you can't appreciate what they are trying to do now, well keep your money when they start winning, too.

thats the thing, nothing has changed. we still have owners that don't give a shit and that attitude is not going to change until the team is sold to owners that do. only thing thats changed is the name of the players and the cost of the players.
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#34
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Oh yeah. And spending $100 million on a loosing team is going to increase attendance. Year in and year out? Sure we can all agree that the M's screwed the pooch. But to say things are business as usual is far from fair. We are watching the beginning of something special. If you can't appreciate what they are trying to do now, well keep your money when they start winning, too.



When is the right time to spend? Who is the right person to spend on? GMZ tried to build this team with high OBP guys and didn't bring in any power bats. He let more power bats leave than he kept or brought in. We'd be watching something special if he didn't let certain players go. What we're watching is more losing. There's nothing special about that no matter whose name is on the back of the jersey.

What Seattle needs is a dynamic shift in their ideology. Its not just the FO but the fans also. The focus should be on bringing a championship to Seattle not hoping they can pretend to manage a team or develop some talent. Something that would make baseball exciting in Seattle. Instead we celebrate past failures.
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#35
Toomany10pins

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LOL
I bet Texas fans are calling for ownership's head after their 3 game losing streak. How about down in Anaheim? The Angels are behind us in the standings. I love it how people expect way too much out of this club. When Figgins is gone, this team will probably be the youngest in all of baseball. These are a bunch of kids learning to play the game at the highest level. The M's tied up their own hands with veterans for years and traded away what little farm system they had trying to avoid rebuilding. Now that we're finally rebuilding the fans are outraged. Woohoo!

This club has a bunch of young kids. When they click, it's going to be awesome to watch. Give em time.

I love Vargas' attitude post game. He was pissed.

The kids have to find it for themselves. Stop blaming the GM. Stop blaming the manager. Stop blaming Nintendo. We're a month into the season and really, who expected much more than what we've seen so far? This is a young team that's got a lot to learn. In June or July things will mesh and they will get hot. They will play some really good ball and hopefully will finish off the season close to .500.


You missed the point he OP was trying to make, and by a mile. This isn't about a current losing streak, its about 10 years of absolute failure, self inflicted absolute failure. If youre OK with that then that's your prerogative I guess?
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#36
Toomany10pins

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While I admire your positive approach, Doc, I think the arguments you supply in this case is not very compelling. Despite their 3-game losing streak, Texas is the defending 2-time AL champion with a lineup stacked with offense and a staff stacked with great pitching. The Angels? Sure, they're in last place, but based on recent history that's an aberration that won't last long. If we had a manager in Seattle with the kind of sustained success that Mike Scioscia has enjoyed in Anaheim, there would be few people calling for his head this early in the season.

And while it's true that we are finally rebuilding, we are doing it with such a massive up-front reliance on a plethora of kids, if not unprecedented then nearly so, that I think we are seeing more struggling by the young'uns than is necessary. Not only that, but we could see their development stunted at least in some cases (though I admit that point is debatable).

And this takes us back to ownership. You can tell people to stop blaming Nintendo (a metaphor for ownership), but again you cannot begin to compare the financially timid, miserly and visionless ownership in Seattle with Texas and LAAAAAAA. They run out a poor product for a decade, drive attendance into the ground, cry poverty, and then "unleash the beast" by, of all things, cutting payroll even more and making their rebuild so youth-heavy that they have no veteran besides an aging Ichiro supplying any significant help at all in the lineup. So again, you can tell people to stop. But they won't. Not when ownership has handed them ladle after ladle of culpability soup.

BINGO! :thumbup:
Post of the year right there!
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#37
phredmojo

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You missed the point he OP was trying to make, and by a mile. This isn't about a current losing streak, its about 10 years of absolute failure, self inflicted absolute failure. If youre OK with that then that's your prerogative I guess?

it's more then that. its 19+ years. sure we had a few winning seasons in there, but the we don't give a shit attitudeabout winning has been the same since 1993 by ownership. they refused to pay tino and nelson in 1995 and traded them away, they refused to get the extra bat we needed in 2000, 2001, 2002 causing both gillick and piniella to quit. and that attitude is still the same today as it was then. as long as the current owners own the team, this team will not be a winner.
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#38
DocMilo

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When is the right time to spend? Who is the right person to spend on? GMZ tried to build this team with high OBP guys and didn't bring in any power bats. He let more power bats leave than he kept or brought in. We'd be watching something special if he didn't let certain players go. What we're watching is more losing. There's nothing special about that no matter whose name is on the back of the jersey.

What Seattle needs is a dynamic shift in their ideology. Its not just the FO but the fans also. The focus should be on bringing a championship to Seattle not hoping they can pretend to manage a team or develop some talent. Something that would make baseball exciting in Seattle. Instead we celebrate past failures.

What power bat did he let leave?

You missed the point he OP was trying to make, and by a mile. This isn't about a current losing streak, its about 10 years of absolute failure, self inflicted absolute failure. If youre OK with that then that's your prerogative I guess?

I agree. They scrood the pooch for thru pretty much all of the 2000's. Still, when is the last time you saw the M's try and develope and build thru the farm? Yes, never. So, we just can't compare the present to the past. I'm excited about the youth coming up. I'm really excited about some of the attitude I'm starting to see in regards to losing. The kids aren't happy about it and I feel they are going to turn it around and turn it on.
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#39
phredmojo

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shawn kelley called up ER sent down.

No one doc everything GMZ has done has been golden. I'm never going to question him again. What was I thinking.

will be starting not relieving
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#40
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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2nights line up.

Ackley 2b
Ryan SS
Ichiro RF
Montero C
Seager 3b
Jaso DH
Smoak 1b
Carp LF
Saunders CF

Ryan back in the 2 hole. Saunders batting 9th. Hmmmm seems like a good choice to me.
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