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... And On the Seventh Day ...


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#1
Sandy - Raleigh

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6-5 start. WOO-HOO!!!!

Team OPS: .620 (ouch)
Team OPS+ 71 (double ouch)

13th in HRs, slugging, OPS and HBP.

Only Oakland has a worse hitting team, (is that because Seattle pitching is good ... or Oakland hitting bad?)

But ... here's the variable I want to note. At this moment, there are two starters for Seattle with an OPS above .700.

B Ryan = .214/.290/.429 (.719)
K Seager = .286/.306/.457 (.763)

They also have something else in common. Each has played only 9 of the 11 games.

Montero and Olivo have both played 10. Smoak, Figgins and Ichiro have played every game.

After the first 4 games, 6 of the starters had an OPS+ above 100. Today, Seager is alone.

I believe these are related. I think part of the reason Ryan and Seager are current the only two guys above .700 is BECAUSE they got some extra rest. While it is way too early in the season for the bodies to have worn down ... much of the MLB grind is mental. Hey, I completely get that you want to ride a hot bat when you've got one. But the Ms haven't had any. Seattle hasn't been lucky enough to have a guy begin the season on a .450 tear. Oakland and Texas have good pitching and so it's been an understandably rough start for the offense.

But, a random day off to give a guy off the bench some work helps keep both the starters and the reserves mentally fresh. The point here is that good managers figure out ways to get guys work on a "regular" basis. That means days off for starters and pinch-hits for bench guys starting early.

I think the auto-starts for Ichiro and Figgins are ultimately detrimental. If you start them every day, then you "have" to start Smoak every day. It's part of the entitled Veteran rule book. I think it's doubly damaging when you rest your guys hitting well, (Seager, Ryan and even Ackley got a day off), while guys struggling (Figgins and Smoak) get penciled in day after day after day. It sends the exact wrong message -- let's reward failure and penalize success.

Of course, it's early. And a pace for 146 starts means 1 day off every 10th game. So, maybe Smoak and Figgins and Ichiro get a day off tomorrow or the next day. But, I watched Bobby Cox perform lineup magic for 20 years. And he had to do that while running with the demands of commonly pinch-hitting for the pitcher. That first division title in '91 ... only two guys played 150. Rafael Belliard played 149 ... but only got 385 PAs because he was in an offense/defense platoon with Jeff Blauser (who would appear in 129 games, but get 415 PAs).

If you wait until AFTER a guy is slumping to give him a day off ... you are a BAD manager. Good managers are supposed to be reading the signs that suggest a player might benefit from a mental health day before production plummets. You act proactively, so it doesn't seem like you are acting punitively.

Instead, the current paradigm seems to be ... if a player is slumping, the coach continues to ride him ... (so as to avoid the appearance of punitive benching). It's the worst of all worlds.

The club has faced 9 RHP starters and only two LHP starters. Jaso has only one game played. That's not a good use of resources.

Last season, I was willing to give Wedge the benefit of the doubt. He had a difficult mix of prospects to deal with and if you're evaluating kids, you need to see plenty of PAs. But, Figgins and Ichiro and Olivo got way more PT than they "earned", and it was ultimately injury that finally got Figgins out of the lineup. Guti, despite attempting to recover strength after a terrible illness started 27 of 28 games in a streak from July to August ... then ended up back on the DL in September.

There was a spell in August when Ichiro played DH a few times, which allowed Wells some time in RF. That at least hinted at the possibility that they might at least give him "DH rest" occasionally this year. But, since he started every game in September playing RF, that should've told me I was way too optimistic.

The reason I bring this up today is that in 2011, the club went 13-15 in April and 15-11 in May. But, the pattern for most players was ... initial attention paid to getting regular rest. Ackley started on 6/17 and got his first day off on 6/22 ... then another on 7/1 and 7/2. Then another on 7/21. (All Star Break was in there). After that, Ackley had a single day off between 7/31 and 9/18. After coming off the DL, Smoak got one day from between game 24 and 62.

There is ZERO nuance to the choices Wedge makes for the lineup. The switch hitters, (Smoak and Figgins) are basically automatic, (as is Ichiro). The lefty bats get rest days in response to lefty starters (occasionally). If there isn't a veteran on the bench Wedge WANTS to get in the lineup, then the righties just keep playing until they drop. This is NOT good team management ... either in terms of optimization or mental preparedness. The GM is not going to replace half your lineup with fresh bodies every year. As a manager, you MUST have some concept of how to keep every player on the roster engaged, keep your prime talents sharp, and accept that you cannot make every decision based solely on winning the one game being played today.

I get no sense at all of any kind of balance between win today vs. maximize assets for the entire year. Beating up on Oakland is fine and good. But, I am wondering if this is in fact not just Wedge ... but an organizational tendency ... to dismiss the benefits of regular rest days ... and that this as much as anything contributes to the long standing trend of watching hitters do better everywhere else.

Maybe I'm jumping the gun ... but I definitely believe that attention needs to be paid toward the "rest" patterns for this roster. Even if the club stays over .500 in April and May ... if the cost is to watch guys' production plummet in the second half ... or worse, end up on the DL ... you're winning battles but losing the war.
  • 3
The purpose of government is to set the minimum standard of behavior for a society, backed up with the power and authority to police and punish those who fail to meet those minimum standards. The purpose of Religion is to encourage people to exceed those standards voluntarily.

Adopt-a-player(s):
Age 25 - RH - (2B/UT) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Stefen Romero - mnrs - 1547-PA; 85-2B; 60-HR; 271-RBI; 36-SB; 21-CS; 96-BB; 250-K; .311/.361/.523 -- .884
MAJORS - 180-PA; 6-2B; 2-3B; 3-HR; 11-RBI; 0-SB; 3-CS; 4-BB; 46-K; .196/.236/.310 -- .545

Age 23 - LH - (LF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Dario Pizzano - 2014 - 451-PA; 30-2B; 11-HR; 71-RBI; 1-SB; 1-CS; 64-BB; 49-K; .245/.357/.445 -- .802 (A+/AA)
Dario Pizzano - mnrs - 1232-PA; 88-2B; 23-HR; 170-RBI; 12-SB; 5-CS; 155-BB; 134-K; .296/.389/.469 -- .858

Age 23 - RH - (CF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Henry - 2014 - 473-PA; 24-2B; 28-HR; 92-RBI; 6-SB; 8-CS; 63-BB; 99-K; .294/.400/.585 -- .986 (A+)
Jabari Henry - mnrs - 1156-PA; 62-2B; 47-HR; 191-RBI; 20-SB; 17-CS; 155-BB; 219-K; .276/.381/.508 -- .888

Age 24 - RH - (OF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Blash - 2014 - 299-PA; 14-2B; 0-3B; 17-HR; 57-RBI; 6-SB; 2-CS; 39-BB; 81-K; .228/.351/.492 -- .843 (AA/AAA)
Jabari Blash - mnrs - 1740-PA; 80-2B; 13-3B; 76-HR; 257-RBI; 50-SB; 24-CS; 238-BB; 480-K; .254/.371/.484 -- .855

#2
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I question the way Wedge is handling the roster as well. It's hard to follow what this team is attempting to do.
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#3
Jokestar57

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I wonder about Iwakuma. Do you suppose the Man from Japan dictated that Iwakuma WOULD make the team regardless of ability and this is Da Wedgies reaction to that? I know the SP is eating up innings but we're almost 2 weeks into the season and he hasn't pitched yet. Maybe he's Wedges "rule 5" kid from Lous day.
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#4
Vidya

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Iwakuma has earned his lack of playing time. He hasn't been effective, but he could still contribute to the team later this season. In a sense he is occupying a roster spot in much the same way a Rule 5 player would. What's weird is our real Rule 5 guy is contributing effectively.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#5
Jokestar57

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The problem, Vidya, is you don't keep someone on the team and never get them into a game. Good, bad or indifferent, a pitcher needs SOME action to even begin to help the team. It doesn't look like he's injured because they'd have him on the DL after this length of time. I just find it curious that he hasn't faced one batter in the first 11 games.
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#6
Sandy - Raleigh

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Unfortunately, even though I do my best to treat any quote from a manager as hokum ... the general responses from Wedge in regards to Montero and his PT at catcher don't help in quelling my growing angst that not only is Wedge a sub-par roster manager ... I am increasingly of the opinion that he's got a seriously bad case of VED ... (Veteran Entitlement Disease).

Even if you don't want to overload Montero by throwing him behind the plate too much, your other catcher, Jaso ... a lefty ... gets one start all season ... and that is as a DH ... not a catcher!?!

At this point, I think if Carp hadn't gotten hurt, Seager would'be played twice ... maybe.

Ichiro, Figgins, Smoak and Olivo are all part of the entitled veteran pool and get to play every day regardless of other concerns.

Olivo is playing because Wedge wants to play him.
Figgins is playing because Wedge wants to play him.
Ichiro is playing the field every day because Ichiro wants to play the field every day.
Smoak is playing every day because ... well, Carp got hurt, and Smoak is a switch-hitter.

The worst part of all this is ... when Carp returns, Figgins likely becomes a near full-time CF ... since Saunders has reverted to form and is crashing offensively.

I am feeling less good about this manager almost daily.
  • 1
The purpose of government is to set the minimum standard of behavior for a society, backed up with the power and authority to police and punish those who fail to meet those minimum standards. The purpose of Religion is to encourage people to exceed those standards voluntarily.

Adopt-a-player(s):
Age 25 - RH - (2B/UT) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Stefen Romero - mnrs - 1547-PA; 85-2B; 60-HR; 271-RBI; 36-SB; 21-CS; 96-BB; 250-K; .311/.361/.523 -- .884
MAJORS - 180-PA; 6-2B; 2-3B; 3-HR; 11-RBI; 0-SB; 3-CS; 4-BB; 46-K; .196/.236/.310 -- .545

Age 23 - LH - (LF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Dario Pizzano - 2014 - 451-PA; 30-2B; 11-HR; 71-RBI; 1-SB; 1-CS; 64-BB; 49-K; .245/.357/.445 -- .802 (A+/AA)
Dario Pizzano - mnrs - 1232-PA; 88-2B; 23-HR; 170-RBI; 12-SB; 5-CS; 155-BB; 134-K; .296/.389/.469 -- .858

Age 23 - RH - (CF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Henry - 2014 - 473-PA; 24-2B; 28-HR; 92-RBI; 6-SB; 8-CS; 63-BB; 99-K; .294/.400/.585 -- .986 (A+)
Jabari Henry - mnrs - 1156-PA; 62-2B; 47-HR; 191-RBI; 20-SB; 17-CS; 155-BB; 219-K; .276/.381/.508 -- .888

Age 24 - RH - (OF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Blash - 2014 - 299-PA; 14-2B; 0-3B; 17-HR; 57-RBI; 6-SB; 2-CS; 39-BB; 81-K; .228/.351/.492 -- .843 (AA/AAA)
Jabari Blash - mnrs - 1740-PA; 80-2B; 13-3B; 76-HR; 257-RBI; 50-SB; 24-CS; 238-BB; 480-K; .254/.371/.484 -- .855

#7
DaddyO

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In my book Wedge is like most managers...a mixed bag. Some things I like about him. A lot. Other things, not so much.

Like:
Attitude. He came into an out-of-control, loser's-mentality situation and changed the culture. There is no doubt he is in control, at least of the clubhouse. And he did it without being a jerk.
Also, he does a pretty good job handling the pitching staff, of course with the help of Carl Willis. But if you don't have Wedge, you don't have Willis.
Seems usually to have the players' backs.
Prepared the way for and actually implemented moving Ichiro out of the leadoff spot.
Takes a long-term approach to things.

Don't Like:
Unwillingness to pinch hit.
Unwillingness to use the whole roster.
Occasional "freeze-out" of certain players.
Takes TOO long an approach to things somethimes.
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---------------------

There's an old saying, "The Proof Is In The Pudding."

Mariners 2012: It's Puddin' Time
Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?


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#8
Vidya

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Wedge has pledged that accountability will be the theme for the 2012 season. Maybe it is simply PR hype, or maybe we're being a little impatient. As fans we seem to have very short term memories, but managers as a whole seem to have too much patience. Maybe that's all it is, or maybe you're right that we are doomed to watch Figgins, Olivo, Ichiro and Smoak in the line-up every day for the rest of the season despite very low production. The best part of the thread so far is no one has suggested that's it's the FO that's making out the line-up card every day.

Last year I was similarly impatient about Ackley getting promoted from Tacoma. Also, I do admit to being very puzzled at the lack of starts for Jaso at the catcher position. When Liddi is used in the line-up, I also believe it is Smoak that should be rested, and not Seager. I won't refute the statement about Seager's playing time if Carp hadn't gone on the DL. I won't exclude myself from the list of the impatient.

Maybe Wedge will gradually transition to more logical roster management, or maybe he will continue to give the players enough rope to hang themselves. I don't know which it will be, but I do expect he will eventually get around to accountability, just not as soon as we like. In a couple of months we will know for sure if the whole accountability thing was just an act to sell tickets. It really doesn't matter, because most fans will simply look at the standings, and not base their decision on a TV ad.

Edited by Vidya, 17 April 2012 - 12:32 PM.

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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#9
Vidya

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I'm going to split the position players into 3 categories: TOTO bats, MOTO bats, and BOTO bats. TOTO bats occupy positions 1 through 3, MOTO bats occupy positions 4 through 6, and BOTO bats occupy positions 7 through 9. I know most still believe that TOTO bats are positions 9 through 1, MOTO bats are positions 3 through 5 and BOTO bats are positions 6 through 8. That's the traditional way of constructing an AL line-up, but it's not the 2012 Seattle Mariners.

For TOTO bats I'm looking at OBP and speed. We currently have 5 players that could fill that role: Figgins, Ackley, Ichiro, Saunders and Gutierrez. Gutierrez is currently on the DL, and Saunders has not proven decisively that he should replace any of the others. In an emergency Ryan or Kawasaki could fit into that group, but no one is really arguing for them.

For MOTO bats the only candidates we have are: Montero, Smoak, Seager and Carp. As we all know, Carp is on the DL, so the only option Wedge might have right now is to promote Olivo into this group. That's certainly not on anyone here's list.

For BOTO bats we have Ryan, Kawasaki, Olivo, Jaso, Wells and Liddi. Liddi could eventually become a MOTO bat, but the time is not now. These are the options that Wedge has. It's not Wedge that's showing veteran entitlement, it's the players Zduriencik has given him. At least that's how it looks to me.

Edited by Vidya, 17 April 2012 - 06:59 PM.

  • 0

My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#10
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I'm going to split the position players into 3 categories: TOTO bats, MOTO bats, and BOTO bats. TOTO bats occupy positions 1 through 3, MOTO bats occupy positions 4 through 6, and BOTO bats occupy positions 7 through 9. I know most still believe that TOTO bats are positions 9 through 1, MOTO bats are positions 3 through 5 and BOTO bats are positions 6 through 8. That's the traditional way of constructing an AL line-up, but it's not the 2012 Seattle Mariners.

For TOTO bats I'm looking at OBP and speed. We currently have 5 players that could fill that role: Figgins, Ackley, Ichiro, Saunders and Gutierrez. Gutierrez is currently on the DL, and Saunders has not proven decisively that he should replace any of the others. In an emergency Ryan or Kawasaki could fit into that group, but no one is really arguing for them.

For MOTO bats the only candidates we have are: Montero, Smoak, Seager and Carp. As we all know, Carp is on the DL, so the only option Wedge might have right now is to promote Olivo into this group. That's certainly not on anyone here's list.

For BOTO bats we have Ryan, Kawasaki, Olivo, Jaso, and Liddi. Liddi could eventually become a MOTO bat, but the time is not now. These are the options that Wedge has. It's not Wedge that's showing veteran entitlement, it's the players Zduriencik has given him. At least that's how it looks to me.


I disagree with your breakdown on the bats a little bit. I think Figgins and Olivo shouldn't even be considered. They should in fact be off the roster. But that's something else entirely. Seager should be top of the order and Saunders should be bottom of the oder. Liddi should be middle of of the order. Guti should be bottom of the order. Wells should be on the lit some whee if he every gets a chance to actually play i like him 6th so I guess that's middle.
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#11
phredmojo

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Iwakuma has earned his lack of playing time. He hasn't been effective, but he could still contribute to the team later this season. In a sense he is occupying a roster spot in much the same way a Rule 5 player would. What's weird is our real Rule 5 guy is contributing effectively.

little hard to be effective when you aren't allowed to pitch at all. if they wereb't planning on ever using him, why did they bother putting him on the 25. you can't honestly say that in 97 innings they couldn't have found 1- or 2 for iwakuma. you want to talk ineffective, talk about delabar, furbush, sherrill and kelly.
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RIP Ichidman51............say hello to wildman and Ray_Oyler_fan...you will be missed my friend

#12
Vidya

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little hard to be effective when you aren't allowed to pitch at all. if they wereb't planning on ever using him, why did they bother putting him on the 25. you can't honestly say that in 97 innings they couldn't have found 1- or 2 for iwakuma. you want to talk ineffective, talk about delabar, furbush, sherrill and kelly.

I'm assuming that Iwakuma is on the roster because his contract does not allow him to be optioned to the minor leagues without clearing waivers. I couldn't verify it at Cot's, but he did sign a free agent MLB contract. Normal rookie rules don't apply here. Wedge is probably waiting for a blow-out game to use him.

Furbush obviously has an option because the Mariners have already used it. As for Delabar, I totally agree. Sherrill is on the DL and Kelley is in the Tacoma bullpen. I'm not sure who replaced Furbush in the Tacoma bullpen, but I'll post it when I learn the answer.
  • 0

My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#13
Vidya

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I disagree with your breakdown on the bats a little bit. I think Figgins and Olivo shouldn't even be considered. They should in fact be off the roster. But that's something else entirely. Seager should be top of the order and Saunders should be bottom of the oder. Liddi should be middle of of the order. Guti should be bottom of the order. Wells should be on the lit some whee if he every gets a chance to actually play i like him 6th so I guess that's middle.

:cpoint: for noticing I forgot Wells.

I agree that Olivo and Figgins should be off the roster and replaced with Moore and Robinson. That's not my point, I was only discussing the roster as currently constructed. When Peguero gets back off the DL, I will add his name to the list after a couple of weeks. I'm not expecting Zduriencik to be in a hurry to release either one of them, so I'll give him time to figure out trades for them.

Maybe Jaso will be added to the MOTO list shortly. He just hit a two-run HR to give the Mariners the lead. Seager did steal a lot of bases for North Carolina in 2009, but he hasn't run much in his professional career. After watching his HR earlier this season I see him more of a MOTO bat. Wedge has already moved him to the #5 spot. I believe he will move up another spot to #4 if Smoak doesn't pick up his numbers soon.

Edited by Vidya, 17 April 2012 - 09:53 PM.

  • 0

My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#14
Sandy - Raleigh

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For TOTO bats I'm looking at OBP and speed. We currently have 5 players that could fill that role: Figgins, Ackley, Ichiro, Saunders ... In an emergency Ryan or Kawasaki could fit into that group, but no one is really arguing for them.


Of the 36 game starts for TOTO hitters, 35 have been Figgy, Ackley, Ichiro. The only substitution in those 36 opportunities was ... Liddi ... for Ackley ... for one game.

I agree that Saunders is reasonable ... but don't get at all why Kawasaki would only be considered "emergency". In point of fact, he ran .340 OBPs in Japan and stole 30 bases a year. He has no power at all, but his profile is "baby Ichiro" ... a singles hitter with speed. No, you wouldn't want necessarily want him batting second every day, but he and Saunders would be perfectly acceptable "fast" hitters for TOTO.

Moreover, Ichiro and Figgins are the two olderst position players on the roster. So, let us run the guys most likely to benefit from rest days out there 100% and let our kids who need PT rot on the bench. The 100% play rate of Figgins and Ichiro is not predictated on TOTO issues.

Note: Ackley, a TOTO guy ... has one day where he didn't play at all *PLUS* one day as DH. So, the 24-year-old 2B gets a "DH-day-off", but the two oldest guys stay in the field.

For MOTO bats the only candidates we have are: Montero, Smoak, Seager and Carp. As we all know, Carp is on the DL, so the only option Wedge might have right now is to promote Olivo into this group. That's certainly not on anyone here's list.


Of the 36 MOTO game starts available, Smoak is 12/12, but Seager has two full days off, and Montero playing nearly exclusive DH also has a day off. Liddi and Saunders picked up the MOTO starts beyond the one Carp took. So, three total substitutions here ... well, only two really, since Carp was sent to the DL after one game. In fairness, Seager didn't start game one ... which raises the question ... if Carp doesn't hit the DL, would Seager have played at all?

The pattern holds here, where the "veteran" Smoak (compared to Seager and Montero), plays 100% of the time, while even after showing a hot bat, Seager gets subbed in with Liddi for one game, and the Ackley DH-day-off is paid for by sitting Montero, (not Olivo).

Note: I am not objecting to giving Ackley a day off to get Liddi into the lineup ... I am objecting to NOT giving Figgins or Ichiro or Olivo days off to get Liddi, Wells, Jaso or Kawasaki into the lineup.

For BOTO bats we have Ryan, Kawasaki, Olivo, Jaso, Wells and Liddi. Liddi could eventually become a MOTO bat, but the time is not now. These are the options that Wedge has. It's not Wedge that's showing veteran entitlement, it's the players Zduriencik has given him. At least that's how it looks to me.


Of the 36 starts - Olivo got Tuesday night off, making him 10 of 12. Saunders 10/12 and Ryan 10/12. That's not a horrible mix ... except that you're carrying 3 catchers, and Jaso hasn't caught ANY games yet.

In the end, the big problem is the pandering to Ichiro and Figgins and Olivo. (Smoak I give a pass on, since Carp was the obvious 1B backup and hit the DL after 1 game).

==========

All that said ... when Carp and Guti return, the lineup jugging issues get much larger. I'm thinking Guti just outright replaces Saunders, (which may not be an upgrade). But, when Carp returns that is going to seriously force the hand of management in regards to Figgins.
  • 1
The purpose of government is to set the minimum standard of behavior for a society, backed up with the power and authority to police and punish those who fail to meet those minimum standards. The purpose of Religion is to encourage people to exceed those standards voluntarily.

Adopt-a-player(s):
Age 25 - RH - (2B/UT) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Stefen Romero - mnrs - 1547-PA; 85-2B; 60-HR; 271-RBI; 36-SB; 21-CS; 96-BB; 250-K; .311/.361/.523 -- .884
MAJORS - 180-PA; 6-2B; 2-3B; 3-HR; 11-RBI; 0-SB; 3-CS; 4-BB; 46-K; .196/.236/.310 -- .545

Age 23 - LH - (LF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Dario Pizzano - 2014 - 451-PA; 30-2B; 11-HR; 71-RBI; 1-SB; 1-CS; 64-BB; 49-K; .245/.357/.445 -- .802 (A+/AA)
Dario Pizzano - mnrs - 1232-PA; 88-2B; 23-HR; 170-RBI; 12-SB; 5-CS; 155-BB; 134-K; .296/.389/.469 -- .858

Age 23 - RH - (CF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Henry - 2014 - 473-PA; 24-2B; 28-HR; 92-RBI; 6-SB; 8-CS; 63-BB; 99-K; .294/.400/.585 -- .986 (A+)
Jabari Henry - mnrs - 1156-PA; 62-2B; 47-HR; 191-RBI; 20-SB; 17-CS; 155-BB; 219-K; .276/.381/.508 -- .888

Age 24 - RH - (OF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Blash - 2014 - 299-PA; 14-2B; 0-3B; 17-HR; 57-RBI; 6-SB; 2-CS; 39-BB; 81-K; .228/.351/.492 -- .843 (AA/AAA)
Jabari Blash - mnrs - 1740-PA; 80-2B; 13-3B; 76-HR; 257-RBI; 50-SB; 24-CS; 238-BB; 480-K; .254/.371/.484 -- .855

#15
DocMilo

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Carp has to start hitting in the minors first. I'm under the assumption that Carp is out of options, but I did see somewhere, someone said he still has one. I don't know. I'm pulling for Carp and Guti up and Liddi and Wells down. Wells and Liddi need to play more. That should be in Tacoma. Wells hasn't been the same since getting a pitch off his nose.

The M's really need to move Olivo. They should move him for a rookie league player as long as the other team takes on his salary. Montero and Jaso (or Moore) can handle the catching duties, Saunders should move to left and Carp can be the primary DH and occasionally play LF and 1B. When Carp is in the field, Montero can DH.

Hmm. Where did I put Figgins? Oh, there he is. He's buried under the pile of laundry... forgotten.
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#16
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Carp has to start hitting in the minors first. I'm under the assumption that Carp is out of options, but I did see somewhere, someone said he still has one. I don't know. I'm pulling for Carp and Guti up and Liddi and Wells down. Wells and Liddi need to play more. That should be in Tacoma. Wells hasn't been the same since getting a pitch off his nose.

The M's really need to move Olivo. They should move him for a rookie league player as long as the other team takes on his salary. Montero and Jaso (or Moore) can handle the catching duties, Saunders should move to left and Carp can be the primary DH and occasionally play LF and 1B. When Carp is in the field, Montero can DH.

Hmm. Where did I put Figgins? Oh, there he is. He's buried under the pile of laundry... forgotten.


If they decide to make Montero the everyday C then Liddi should see more time at DH (at least we add power to our line up). I also think Liddi can handle 3rd SS or 1st. With the way Smoak is hitting or isn't hitting I should say Liddi should get a start at 1b. With Wells he should either be playing CF or LF Figgins should be cut. Now when carp gets back things get a little tricky however, Carp can rotate LF and 1B with smoak.

Also Wedge should start resting Ichiro more (I love you Ichiro). However, we shouldn't be asking our oldest player to go other there every day 162 games and play. I say one DH game each week which allows for Wells to play a bit more. Especially once carp comes back.

Then when Guti comes back we're going to have to see where Saunders is at if Saunders is hitting I don't think Guti should replace him. If Saunders is still sucking it up then Guti should obviously replace him. But it all depends on Wedge and with the way he's been managing the roster thus far I wouldn't hold my breath.
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#17
Sandy - Raleigh

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Ultimately ... and perhaps fruitlessly ... I think Olivo, Figgins and Millwood are sort of in the same boat.

Jack is "hoping" that they each perform well enough for 2-3 months that he can trade each one to fill a minor league vacancy (when he starts moving the next crop of youngens onto the 25-man).

Figgins contract makes him the hardest to move ... and therefore also the one (regretably) with the longest leash.

Millwood or Olivo would be perfect "low value" trades for a contender with an injury or a BOR problem.

I think Jack understands 2012 isn't "the year". I think he knows that the coming arms need some work in the minors before promotion ... and it's something of a competition. I even think he knows that Millwood is the first man out (unless Beaven or Noesi flames out badly in the first half). I just believe he would like to turn Millwood into the next ... Robles.

Jack thinks 3 moves ahead. That's part of what makes him good.

The casual fan thinks ... "give me Paxton ... give me Hultzen ... give me Walker!"

Jack thinks ... and when I do that, what have I got left on the farm? I don't want to be forced into settling for a not-nearly-ready Feierabend the first time some injuries hit the rotation. And I definitely don't want to have to trade away my NEXT Pineda in rookie ball so I can be the guy forced to pick up Jeff Weaver when Vargas hits the DL for a month.

The "ideal" - (which is probably not how things WILL work out) - is that Millwood strings together 5 or 6 good starts - a contender with BOR problems comes calling, and he trades Millwood for some 2nd tier, low minors bodies while promoting Paxton or Walker to the Bigs. Millwood gives him a "chance" at an extra "free" 8th round draft pick.
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The purpose of government is to set the minimum standard of behavior for a society, backed up with the power and authority to police and punish those who fail to meet those minimum standards. The purpose of Religion is to encourage people to exceed those standards voluntarily.

Adopt-a-player(s):
Age 25 - RH - (2B/UT) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Stefen Romero - mnrs - 1547-PA; 85-2B; 60-HR; 271-RBI; 36-SB; 21-CS; 96-BB; 250-K; .311/.361/.523 -- .884
MAJORS - 180-PA; 6-2B; 2-3B; 3-HR; 11-RBI; 0-SB; 3-CS; 4-BB; 46-K; .196/.236/.310 -- .545

Age 23 - LH - (LF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Dario Pizzano - 2014 - 451-PA; 30-2B; 11-HR; 71-RBI; 1-SB; 1-CS; 64-BB; 49-K; .245/.357/.445 -- .802 (A+/AA)
Dario Pizzano - mnrs - 1232-PA; 88-2B; 23-HR; 170-RBI; 12-SB; 5-CS; 155-BB; 134-K; .296/.389/.469 -- .858

Age 23 - RH - (CF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Henry - 2014 - 473-PA; 24-2B; 28-HR; 92-RBI; 6-SB; 8-CS; 63-BB; 99-K; .294/.400/.585 -- .986 (A+)
Jabari Henry - mnrs - 1156-PA; 62-2B; 47-HR; 191-RBI; 20-SB; 17-CS; 155-BB; 219-K; .276/.381/.508 -- .888

Age 24 - RH - (OF) - (as of 8/19/2014)
Jabari Blash - 2014 - 299-PA; 14-2B; 0-3B; 17-HR; 57-RBI; 6-SB; 2-CS; 39-BB; 81-K; .228/.351/.492 -- .843 (AA/AAA)
Jabari Blash - mnrs - 1740-PA; 80-2B; 13-3B; 76-HR; 257-RBI; 50-SB; 24-CS; 238-BB; 480-K; .254/.371/.484 -- .855

#18
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Ultimately ... and perhaps fruitlessly ... I think Olivo, Figgins and Millwood are sort of in the same boat.

Jack is "hoping" that they each perform well enough for 2-3 months that he can trade each one to fill a minor league vacancy (when he starts moving the next crop of youngens onto the 25-man).

Figgins contract makes him the hardest to move ... and therefore also the one (regretably) with the longest leash.

Millwood or Olivo would be perfect "low value" trades for a contender with an injury or a BOR problem.

I think Jack understands 2012 isn't "the year". I think he knows that the coming arms need some work in the minors before promotion ... and it's something of a competition. I even think he knows that Millwood is the first man out (unless Beaven or Noesi flames out badly in the first half). I just believe he would like to turn Millwood into the next ... Robles.

Jack thinks 3 moves ahead. That's part of what makes him good.

The casual fan thinks ... "give me Paxton ... give me Hultzen ... give me Walker!"

Jack thinks ... and when I do that, what have I got left on the farm? I don't want to be forced into settling for a not-nearly-ready Feierabend the first time some injuries hit the rotation. And I definitely don't want to have to trade away my NEXT Pineda in rookie ball so I can be the guy forced to pick up Jeff Weaver when Vargas hits the DL for a month.

The "ideal" - (which is probably not how things WILL work out) - is that Millwood strings together 5 or 6 good starts - a contender with BOR problems comes calling, and he trades Millwood for some 2nd tier, low minors bodies while promoting Paxton or Walker to the Bigs. Millwood gives him a "chance" at an extra "free" 8th round draft pick.


While I follow the minors it's not something that I really care about. If we have a player in our minor league system that could help the major league ball club right now. Then there's no reason not to have that player up in the majors. The current state of the M's right now is one of which the attendance is dropping and so is the payroll. At the same time the M's aren't winning any games and can't bring in any major FA to change our fortunes. No one is willing go to want to come to a 90-100 lose team.

The problem with the M's is as it's been for the last 10 years is the lack of a proven impact bat. This team is currently being sold on hope and you know what they say about hope. So whether Jack is thinking 5 steps ahead or 10 steps ahead I'm not really so sure about that. The only thing that matters to me is what the M's are doing and how they're doing. It's nice for our team minor league system to be praised however, that's not helping us win.

You can't flip everyone and you're not always going to get the maximum value out of your moves. A good GM has to be willing to give up on players just as he is willing to give them a shot. You gotta know when to cut your loses and so far GMZ hasn't been willing to do that.
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#19
Vidya

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All that said ... when Carp and Guti return, the lineup jugging issues get much larger. I'm thinking Guti just outright replaces Saunders, (which may not be an upgrade). But, when Carp returns that is going to seriously force the hand of management in regards to Figgins.

I agree that Ichiro and Figgins should be given days off, but it's not likely to happen for a while. Good analysis!

Carp will probably be back before Guti, because he's already begun his rehab and Guti hasn't. Later on this season Wedge will probably want to promote Peguero as well. The Mariners have been hit hard with injuries to outfielders, but that was their deepest positions.

Eventually the DH spot will have to primarily be used for an outfielder, and Wedge will have to go with Jaso and Montero as the catchers. Olivo needs to be traded to the first team that has a catcher go on the 60-day DL. Figgins could return to the infield mix as well as the outfield mix when Carp returns, as I'm guessing it will be Liddi that is optioned. It will be very competitive for outfield / DH spots before the season ends. Wedge may be forced to put Ichiro into the outfield rotation and get some time off, but I don't see it happening until Guti gets back.

The only criticism I have of the analysis is that it's a bit early, so let's not jump to conclusions too quickly. I do hope Wedge takes your advice, but maybe he's already planning to make serious changes in May. Maybe not, but we all know there is much baseball to be played. Other players may need to go on the DL, go day-to-day, or dive into a prolonged slump. What he needs more than anything is options.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#20
Vidya

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While I follow the minors it's not something that I really care about. If we have a player in our minor league system that could help the major league ball club right now, then there's no reason not to have that player up in the majors.

I would like to see Trayvon Robinson promoted right now, but I wouldn't release Figgins to make it happen. I would like to see Delabar out of the bullpen, but that's not a big deal.

The current state of the M's right now is one of which the attendance is dropping and so is the payroll. At the same time the M's aren't winning any games and can't bring in any major FA to change our fortunes. No one is willing go to want to come to a 90-100 lose team.

The problem with the M's is as it's been for the last 10 years is the lack of a proven impact bat. This team is currently being sold on hope and you know what they say about hope. So whether Jack is thinking 5 steps ahead or 10 steps ahead I'm not really so sure about that. The only thing that matters to me is what the M's are doing and how they're doing. It's nice for our team minor league system to be praised however, that's not helping us win.

You can't flip everyone and you're not always going to get the maximum value out of your moves. A good GM has to be willing to give up on players just as he is willing to give them a shot. You gotta know when to cut your loses and so far GMZ hasn't been willing to do that.

Zduriencik has certainly been slow to cut his losses, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it "unwilling." GM's tend to be cautious and fans tend to be very impatient and more willing to make drastic moves. That just the way we are.

Right now this team is far from a 90-100 loss team. Even with the loss tonight, the team is headed towards an 81 loss season. Right now, our most proven impact bats are Ackley and Seager, but we'll have to wait a while for the proven part to happen. OK, maybe if we had signed Fielder we would have that proven impact bat, but would that be enough to get us to the postseason, or would that have been our best move in the long run? To be honest I don't have a real answer, but I have a lot of doubt that the answer to either would have been positive.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.





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