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Which scares you more?


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28 replies to this topic

Poll: Which scares you more? (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Which group will be the achilles heel of the 2012 club?

  1. M's offense (12 votes [41.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 41.38%

  2. M's bullpen (17 votes [58.62%])

    Percentage of vote: 58.62%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1
Huindekmi

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During the first trial balloon... errr... season opening games in Japan, the M's offense was as ineffective as last season and the M's bullpen, beyond the top two or three guys, was as shaky as an over-caffeinated parkinsons sufferer.

Which begs the question: which one scares you more?

Are you convinced that the M's offense will be fine?
Pro: The young core of the team is looking good. Montero, Ackley and Smoak should be gelling into a solid MOTO this season. The rest of the offense just needs to be average.
Con: The M's offense was looking pretty good during Spring Training. But when you go look at the cactus league stats, the guys who were guaranteed jobs were not the ones, for the most part, driving that offensive success. If you look at the 20 players with Cactus League OPS better than .800, only four of them (Montero, Ackley, Smoak and Ichiro) were slated to be starters out of the gate. Two more (Seager and Saunders) get the nod as starters due to injuries to Gutierrez and Carp. The guys who'll be playing a bunch of the time (Figgins, Ryan, Olivo, Carp, Wells) really haven't shown much, either last season or in the precursor to this one.

Will the bullpen be OK?
Pro: The M's start the season with a bunch of question marks, but they do that every year and have a plethora of solid young arms in the farm. By the time the dust clears, the M's will, once again, have one of the best bullpens in the majors. With League, Wilhelmsen and Ramierez as the core, the relief squad will be fine.
Con: Contracts are again taking precedence over talent. The money and guaranteed contracts will keep Sherrill, Kelley and Iwannapuka at the top of the pen, getting reps and blowing games. Luetge will stick around so as not to lose him back to the Brewers. You can't ride the top two or three guys every night
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Adopt-a-Players:
*new* Alex Jackson - Welcome aboard, AJaxx!

2014 Hitting .289/.333/.500/.833 in Peoria.

 

Forrest Snow - Working as a swingman and spot-starter for Tacoma.
2014 AAA/AA: 2-3, 2.35 ERA, 46 K, 12 BB, 1.065 WHIP - more to come!
2013 AAA/AA: 5-5, 2.96 ERA, 84 K, 28 BB, 1.085 WHIP

2012 AAA/AA: 5-9, 6.35 ERA, 99K, 67 BB, 1.674 WHIP


Gone But Not Forgotten (former adopt-a-players):
Eric Thames - Hitting .336/.423/.645/1.068 in Korea (304 plate appearances).
Matt Mangini - Out of baseball. Assistant coach for a high school.
Mike Morse - Hitting .273/.325/.472/.796 for the Giants. (sure would look good as our DH about now)
Jamal Strong - Let go after 2005. Played in the Yankees, Cubs and Braves systems. Now a regional scout for the Cards.


Updated: 06/27/2014


#2
Pirata Morado

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I can't vote! You forgot the option: BOTH.
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#3
Vidya

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I can't vote! You forgot the option: BOTH.

Rats! PM beat me to it. :thumbsup:
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#4
Huindekmi

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The question is which one scares you MOST. I mean, you can be afraid of both spiders and snakes, but one of 'em is gonna freak you out more than the other. ;)
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Adopt-a-Players:
*new* Alex Jackson - Welcome aboard, AJaxx!

2014 Hitting .289/.333/.500/.833 in Peoria.

 

Forrest Snow - Working as a swingman and spot-starter for Tacoma.
2014 AAA/AA: 2-3, 2.35 ERA, 46 K, 12 BB, 1.065 WHIP - more to come!
2013 AAA/AA: 5-5, 2.96 ERA, 84 K, 28 BB, 1.085 WHIP

2012 AAA/AA: 5-9, 6.35 ERA, 99K, 67 BB, 1.674 WHIP


Gone But Not Forgotten (former adopt-a-players):
Eric Thames - Hitting .336/.423/.645/1.068 in Korea (304 plate appearances).
Matt Mangini - Out of baseball. Assistant coach for a high school.
Mike Morse - Hitting .273/.325/.472/.796 for the Giants. (sure would look good as our DH about now)
Jamal Strong - Let go after 2005. Played in the Yankees, Cubs and Braves systems. Now a regional scout for the Cards.


Updated: 06/27/2014


#5
Lonnie

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The question is which one scares you MOST. I mean, you can be afraid of both spiders and snakes, but one of 'em is gonna freak you out more than the other. ;)


I chose the offense because if the bullpen implodes then I may actually smile knowing that there are more talented players ready to step in and right the ship :)
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#6
DocMilo

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Option 4) Neither. When the M's are picked to finish last expectations are kinda low. Anything that works out this year is just all bonus as far as I'm concerned.

The only thing I'm really afraid of is the M's giving Figgens, Gutierrez, Ichiro, Olivo and Ryan playing time based upon salary. If Figgins or any of the others earn their time, fine. I have no problem with that. Last year the M's really didn't have any options in the minor leagues so they were forced to run Figgins, Bradely and Cust out there. That isn't the case this year. The case should be the same for Carp, Seager, Saunders, Jaso, Smoak, Ackley, Wells, Liddi, Montero, Peguero and whoever else suits up in a uniform. If they want to play, they better produce.
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#7
DaddyO

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I voted for the offense as the most scary, simply because a bulllpen can be fixed more easily and cheaply than an offense. We have so bloomin' many prospects that at strategic trade from our surplus for a bullpen arm or two ought not to be so difficult. The judgment, of course, would have to be made whether your in-season situation warrants cashing in prospects for veteran MLB arms or just auditioning more minor leaguers from your system.

The offense to me is the biggest wild card in the season. It SHOULD be a lot better. But how MUCH? And with the MOTO being carried by inexperienced young bats, if things should happen to go badly, say, Montero doesn't get his sea legs and Smoak continues his struggles of last season, and it turns out that Carp's hot streak of last year was just that, then it's possible that the resulting pressure on the other young players will cause a general collapse, with everybody trying to do more than they are yet capable of sustaining. I'm not predicting that, I'm saying that it's possible to see such a thing developing, and it scares me more than some relievers throwing games away. If the offense collapses, it won't matter near as much what the relievers do.

Edited by DaddyO, 02 April 2012 - 03:12 PM.

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---------------------

There's an old saying, "The Proof Is In The Pudding."

Mariners 2012: It's Puddin' Time
Does Anybody Really Know What Time It Is?


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#8
Vidya

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Lonnie makes a pretty good argument for the offense. There is certainly more pitching talent in the minors than offensive talent that can contribute this year in the minors. I still say both scare me after the bullpen implosion in game #2.

But I can only jump so high at the sight of a scary animal, or cringe so much at the thought of the bullpen or the MOTO bats failing miserably. Both max out my cringe-o-meter.

I think the scariest thing is the fear that is in front of me in the moment. That's why if I'm forced I will say the bullpen because they lost game #2. If the MOTO bats are once again silent in games #3 and #4, then I'll pick the offense.

Edited by Vidya, 02 April 2012 - 09:57 PM.

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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#9
phredmojo

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offense, then starting pitching then relievers,. relievers are the easist fix, starters are only a year or 2 away. offense if they suck will be years away
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RIP Ichidman51............say hello to wildman and Ray_Oyler_fan...you will be missed my friend

#10
Toomany10pins

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Have to agree with Lonnie on most of his points. Offense still looks to be "offensive", hope they prove me wrong. :fie: :dntknw:
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#11
Shaggy

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Where's the option for Lonnie?

He scares me the most.
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#12
Lonnie

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Where's the option for Lonnie?

He scares me the most.


I'm starting to get a wee bit uncomfortable with my name popping up this much :unsure:
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Well, ok, so maybe uncomfortable doesn't quite describe how it makes me feel :thumbsup:
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#13
Toomany10pins

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I'm starting to get a wee bit uncomfortable with my name popping up this much :unsure:
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Well, ok, so maybe uncomfortable doesn't quite describe how it makes me feel :thumbsup:



At least its all GOOD. :thumbup1:
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#14
Señor Octobre

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I'm worried about the bullpen. There are enough guys ready to step in if any of them suck on the offensive side. I hope Wedge has a hair~trigger and not give some of these guys forever, (okay June) before he makes a change. I live Seager. I love Kawasaki. Keeping these guys out of it or only letting them play once per week is a crime. What if Ryan sucks at the dish ? What do they do ? There are so many possibilities, with guys who can play multible positions, that it makes my head swim. Okay, my head normally swims.
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Mariner Central Adopt-A-Players:

Victor "Filthy" Sanchez @ AA Jackson. twirls two hit shutout. from Rio Chico , Venezuela
DJ Petterson @ 25 2B's and 20 HR's spliting time between AA Jackson and High Desert, Baseball America's mid season top 5.0 Gilbert, AZ
Luis Liberato  out of La Canela, Dominican Republic hitting .273 in the AZL for 2014,,,!
 
:Former adopt-a-players:

Mike Zunino - In the show
Tom "Clear Head" Wilhelmsen -  In the show
Johan Limonta - AA San Antonio of the Padres System
Greg Halman RIP


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Victor "Filthy" Sanchez
 
grande o vete a casa !
 
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#15
Vidya

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Seager has the nominal starting third base job, and Kawasaki will be sharing shortstop with Ryan. Seager could end up anywhere in the infield, but Liddi is limited to first and third and DH. Jaso can also play first, so Smoak can be easily replaced. Ackley's major back-up is Seager. If something happens to Ryan or Kawasaki then Seager would be added to the shortstop mix. Montero is the official DH, but he will be given plenty of oportunity to catch.

One person none of us has considered is Olivo. With so much competition now at the catcher position, he will not have to play banged up. Maybe that will reflect favorably in his numbers. There are plenty of good reserve outfielders at Tacoma, and the MLB roster has plenty of infielders and catchers on it right now. That is a dramatic improvement from last year. I'm predicting the improved offense will get the Mariners at least 10 more wins this year.

The rotation is not better than the one that started last year, but it's a big improvement over what they ended the year with. Wedge has 7 capable starters on the staff. Iwakuma has been a little shaky so far, but he should improve as the season progresses. If not, then no big deal, he goes back to Japan at the end of the year. Ramirez is chomping at the bit to get into the rotation, he could replace any one of #3 through #5 in the rotation.

Tacoma won't start the season as jammed with starters like last year, but there are three starters at Jackson that won't finish the season there. There are a lot of pitchers in the bullpen mix, but we need more of them to step up and actually be effective. Wedge desperately needs Ramirez in the bullpen for now. I hope Luetge is good, because I don't have a lot of confidence in Sherrill. Pitching is a wash from last year in my mind. The talent level is better, but last year we got lucky in the bullpen., and Zduriencik traded away a couple of our best starters.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#16
AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Has to be the offense. It's been the worst part of the M's games these past couple of years.
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#17
Vidya

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Delabar remains in the bullpen and Furbush was optioned to Tacoma. I'm very much interested in what the rotation for Tacoma will be. My version of the bullpen was very neat, but it kind of falls apart when Wedge made this move, so I'll be interested in learning how the Mariner bullpen shakes out as well. Will Ramirez be used in late innings or long relief? Obviously, I have no faith in Delabar as a late inning pitcher.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#18
Vidya

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The Rainiers rotation is Matt Fox, a minor league FA from the Red Sox organization, Jeff Marquez. a minor league free agent from the Yankees organization, Mauricio Robles, the best we got from the Mariners organization, and Forrest Snow. I don't know who is the fifth starter or how Furbush will be used, so stay tuned.

Despite the 3 to 2 loss I'm not too disappointed in what I saw. I'm very impressed with the Bees and the Angels organization. They seem to have gone from cellar dwellers to the Sacramento River Cats of the PCL. Yes, the Angels are for real, and we will have to deal with them for years to come.

Other position player starters were Johan Limonta at 1B, L-Rod at 2B, Vinnie Catricala at 3B, Carlos Truinfel at SS, Mike Wilson in LF, Trayvon Robinson in CF, and Carlos Peguero in RF. Missing were players like Alex Liddi and Kyle Seager. Can't say I'm sad about that.
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My 2014 AAP's:
James Jones, Rainiers outfielder extraordinaire.

Ji-Man Choi, Rainiers slugging first baseman.

Carson Smith, Rainiers bullpen.

Logan Kensing, Rainiers bullpen.

Jesus Montero, trimmed down and ready to go.

Sorry, Ji-Man, but really? Maybe when you get off the restricted list, Montero will have been promoted. 

Carson is doing a fine job, but Logan has been dominant and deserves recognition.


#19
Lonnie

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The Rainiers rotation is Matt Fox, a minor league FA from the Red Sox organization, Jeff Marquez. a minor league free agent from the Yankees organization, Mauricio Robles, the best we got from the Mariners organization, and Forrest Snow. I don't know who is the fifth starter or how Furbush will be used, so stay tuned.

Despite the 3 to 2 loss I'm not too disappointed in what I saw. I'm very impressed with the Bees and the Angels organization. They seem to have gone from cellar dwellers to the Sacramento River Cats of the PCL. Yes, the Angels are for real, and we will have to deal with them for years to come.

Other position player starters were Johan Limonta at 1B, L-Rod at 2B, Vinnie Catricala at 3B, Carlos Truinfel at SS, Mike Wilson in LF, Trayvon Robinson in CF, and Carlos Peguero in RF. Missing were players like Alex Liddi and Kyle Seager. Can't say I'm sad about that.


I'll be doing a roster analysis of both Tacoma and Jackson today. Over in the minor league section I've already posted up articles on Clinton and High Desert.

Edit: Jackson Roster Analysis completed and posted
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#20
DocMilo

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Other position player starters were Johan Limonta at 1B, L-Rod at 2B, Vinnie Catricala at 3B, Carlos Truinfel at SS, Mike Wilson in LF, Trayvon Robinson in CF, and Carlos Peguero in RF. Missing were players like Alex Liddi and Kyle Seager. Can't say I'm sad about that.

I liked seeing Adam Moore hitting 5th and catching.
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