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2011 MCKL Rule Change Vote (#2) - PASSED


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21 replies to this topic

#1
KingCorran

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For this vote, please either A.) declare your vote in the replies to this thread, or B.) PM your vote to me if you wish to keep your vote anonymous. (In that case, I will record your vote, but will not reveal its effect until the voting is done. You may change your vote at any time up until the vote is declared final, using either of these methods. If anonymous votes are questioned, TheZenador will confirm them privately).


Rule Change Proposal:

Official proposal: that we (summaries followed by 'official language'):

* Change number of keepers from '6' to '4-6'
* ...that the League Rules' subsection 'Keepers' be moved before the 'Draft Order' subsection (for clarity), and its content be replaced with: "Keepers must be selected before the live draft. Your list of 4-6 keepers must be finalized and sent privately to the commissioner (or his representative) before the deadline in order to be confirmed. If a keeper list is not turned in, the commissioner will select the top 6 players by Yahoo O-Rank from that team's available roster to be their 6 keepers."

* Give teams an automatic draft pick for each player less than 6 they keep
* ...that the League Rules' subsection 'Draft Order' be replaced with: "Draft Order will be determined by the final standings of the previous year, with the highest seed drafting at the lowest draft position and the order reversing with each subsequent round. Teams that retain only 5 keepers will be awarded a pick at their usual spot in Round 6 (which is a reversed order round); teams that retain only 4 keepers will also be awarded a pick at their usual spot in Round 5 (which is a normal order round). Selection of non-kept players will begin in Rounds 5 and 6 (for teams with picks in those rounds), and for all teams in Round 7. The official draft order will be posted in this thread after all keeper selections have been finalized, no less than three days prior to the date of the live draft."

* Make draft pick trades illegal
* ...that the line under the League Rules' 'Trades' subsection stating "Trades involving individual draft picks are allowed only in the offseason, and only picks for the upcoming draft are allowed. KingCorran deals with draft pick trading." be replaced with "Draft pick trades of any kind are not permitted."



Reasoning:

A.) The current system of trading draft picks is broken, especially for the mid-tier teams.
---> Low-level teams can improve by trading away picks, but usually only moderately.
---> High-level teams can completely sidestep the 6-keeper limit by retaining MUCH more value through pick trades.
---> Mid-level teams don't have coveted picks OR extra elite keepers to trade, and lose ground to the high-level teams.

B.) Draft pick trading cannot be easily or simply fixed, so it should be removed if a better option is available.


C.) Changing to 4-6 keepers allows teams with low-value keepers to automatically upgrade them, specifically by giving them the draft picks where their keepers would have been chosen.
---> More keepers would make the situation worse, so 6 is still the max limit.
---> A 4-keeper minimum enforces some level of manager responsibility.
---> Starting the range at 4 means the worst team would still pick first (in round 5), if it dropped 2 keepers. If the best team dropped 1 keeper, it would pick first in round 6, but all of the round 5 picks would still go before them.
---> These teams will not have to give up their Round 7 picks to improve - they actually get MORE picks without losing anything.
---> Mid-tier teams have an equal opportunity to benefit, not just low-tier teams.
---> High level teams can only improve via player-for-player trades... many good keepers will get dropped into the draft pool.
---> Any team that loses an elite keeper to injury (Strasburg/Wainwright) or sudden decline (Soriano/Carlos Lee) can replace them with a decent player instead of being crippled.
---> It's a fairly simple change... just decide how many keepers you want, and know you'll get good picks for the ones you don't.

D.) The in-season trade deadline will get more interesting, as teams will have to consider trading extra top players for multiple role players.

E.) The system of replacing dropped keepers with extra picks will make offseason planning more interesting, compensating us for the loss of the interesting draft pick trading. No more complication, but just as much fun.


Effects:
- this causes little extra work for the commissioner - he just assigns fewer keepers to the teams that keep less, and Y! takes care of all of the draft details for him. He is saved the work of having to change the draft pick order (where one mistake is a HUGE mess-up)
- the commissioner will have to accept keeper lists privately, and announce all at once (after the keeper deadline) who kept which players.
- the balance of keepers will greatly improve, as fewer non-keeper-quality players will be kept and more keeper quality players will go to those teams that need them.

Thanks!

---

VOTE TALLY:

14 votes for, 1 vote against (14 votes required for passage by 2/3 majority)
0 anonymous votes, 5 not yet voted (non-votes count as 'no' votes at final tally)

KingCorran - voted FOR
IowaIsNotIdaho - voted FOR
TheZenador - voted FOR
Idahomariner - voted FOR
55panhead - voted FOR
Hotwheelz - voted FOR
Gomez - voted FOR
hdboc - voted FOR
DocMilo - voted FOR
Dag Gummit - voted FOR
phredmojo - voted AGAINST
Bautista - voted FOR
stampi - voted FOR
MarinerPride - voted FOR
R3dH4wk - voted FOR
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#2
KingCorran

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For the record, I vote 'for' the change.

My team has benefited greatly from draft pick trading. And don't get me wrong - I feel I've dealt honestly with people within the system, and I'd be glad to defend any trade I made as of the time it was made. But the result of the system is that teams like mine - already stronger, and with extra keeper-quality players - can retain too much additional strength. The strongest teams can literally *sidestep* the 6-keeper limit.

While that's fun for me individually... it sucks for the league. I'd rather have to work a little harder, and have the league in better balance.

The weakest teams aren't the true problem either - they can benefit through the old system. It's the mid-level teams, with neither attractive picks to trade away nor attractive (extra) players to trade for picks. Their situation is a bigger problem even than upper-level teams being able to keep so much talent... because the line between playoff teams and non-playoff teams becomes way too hard to break! The rich get richer, even if draft pick trades help the 'poorest' get back into the 'middle class'. We need a system that balances the league out much more evenly.

I think this is it.
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#3
IowaIsNotIdaho

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FOR

A great change that should be intriguing with keepers secret up to a deadline! Good to see a change that should over the years balance the league.
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#4
TheZenador

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For, last year I brought up possibly just banning pick trading without doing anything else but I think this is a much better solution.
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#5
Idahomariner

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FOR
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#6
55panhead

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Both thumbs up!
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#7
NWSportsGeek

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For. Never huge on trading draft picks and it would be nice to have the option to keep less than the 6 keepers. I actually might have used that this year.
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Adopt-A-Players:


Jack Marder, C - High Desert (A+)

Daniel Paolini, IF - Clinton (A)

Patrick Kivlehan, 3B - Everett (SS-A)


"Life is precious and time is a key element. Let's make every moment count and help those who have a greater need than our own." --Rogers Hornsby



The Outfield Grass


@outfieldgrass


#8
Gomez

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For. Teams loaded with talent could easily leverage their top position by trading their talent surplus for an excess of top picks. And indeed many lower-level teams just don't have six keeper-worthy players and would be better served having the pick of the litter with a couple extra picks.
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The 2011 Seattle Mariners: At least they're not the 2010 Seattle Mariners!

Adopt-a-player:

Posted Image
Bobby "Spuds" LaFromboise (as dubbed by Lonnie).
2011 stats: 29.2 IP, 2 HR, 13 BB, 23 K, 3.84 FIP with AA Jackson. Named to the 2011 Southern League All Star team!

Adopted but grown and gone: Doogie FISTER, M.D., specializing in groundballs. NOW MLB CERTIFIED!!!

Net Runs scoring system shelved until further notice.

#9
jj-malaysia

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damn i should have seen this before trading Ichiro

lol
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To Everything There is a Season, and a Time to Every Purpose Under Heaven

#10
hdboc

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I vote yes to the change!
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#11
DocMilo

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Fore!

Kinda sexy though. Making draft pick trading "illegal". That word is just going to make me want to trade my draft picks in some dark alley somewhere.
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#12
KingCorran

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I thought about making it 'immoral' - but that would've raised a whole 'nuther host of issues. :-P As would have 'inconceivable', although that one would have at least evoked some entertaining imagery.

Posted Image
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#13
Dag Gummit

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I must say, it is tough to see Draft Pick trading go away completely, but I personally can't think of any other way to balance it out without a ridiculous series of checks-and-balances that would make TZ's job living Hell.

Further, the idea of letting teams choose 4-6 Keepers is quite ingenious to me. Never thought of it. It will really, REALLY help out those two or three teams that had rosters fall apart resulting in only 2/3 legit Keepers. It may also re-boost the value of those young, but sexy guys who WILL become Top-25/50 talent but are currently only Top-150/200

Lastly, hidden draft picks up until D-Day?! Holy making-us-be-flexible-with-our-prerank-philosophy, Batman!

All in all, I'm FOR this whole-heartedly.
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AAP Time:
Nick Franklin & Brad Miller - I'm calling it. By the time they retire, this graduated duo will break the MLB record for the most Double Plays turned as a team. That's what coming up together and being awesome together for your entire careers on the same team will do for ya.

Roenis Elias - LH SP that has thus passed his first "rough-road ahead" sniff test -- get AA hitters out with meh stuff. He isn't electric, but he's certainly interesting enough to keep an eye on and follow because he's only gotten better results while climbing the ladder.
 

#14
IowaIsNotIdaho

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Lastly, hidden draft picks up until D-Day?! Holy making-us-be-flexible-with-our-prerank-philosophy, Batman!



I have been in a league similar to this (7-10 instead of 4-6) and keepers were revealed prior to the draft, but I think what KC meant to portray in the rule change is that they are secret up to a deadline which could be 3-7 days (or longer) before the draft, which still allows for some draft prep.
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#15
Idahomariner

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I must say, it is tough to see Draft Pick trading go away completely, but I personally can't think of any other way to balance it out without a ridiculous series of checks-and-balances that would make TZ's job living Hell.


I am in the same boat, in fact I proposed my own set of checks and balances as a counter to KC's proposal because I am a big fan of having some sort of flexibility to use picks to balance out potential deals (for example I doubt I could have traded Longoria (oh why did you get injured) for Carlos Gonzalez straight up this off season and there weren't really any small levers that could easily be added into the deal to make it work in terms of players but by me adding a draft pick upgrade we were able to bridge the remaining "value" gap...with picks that type of trade does not happen at all.

However I think the cost of giving that up is more than worth it to get the amount of improvement we would get from the current proposal.

FYI my "rediculous series of checks and balances" were as follows: At a high level:

1 - Playoff teams from the previous year cannot trade FOR picks in the first 4 rounds
2 - No one can trade more than one pick for one player (to limit potential return...no getting 3 pick upgrades instead of 1 high round upgrade)
3 - Cannot upgrade more than 100 picks in any trade (again to limit the amount of improvement you can make by trading picks)

but this would have been difficult to manage, so i am pretty happy with the current proposal.

IM
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#16
phredmojo

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against. it will fix nothing.

Edited by phredmojo, 04 April 2011 - 05:06 PM.

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RIP Ichidman51............say hello to wildman and Ray_Oyler_fan...you will be missed my friend

#17
KingCorran

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against. it will fix nothing. the only way to maske the league more competitve so that bad teams have a real chance to improve is to either

A. decrease the # of keepers to 15, decreasing it to 20 does absolutely nothing as like the entire mariner team all thgat is left is crap.

B. decrease the # of teams to 16 and leave the # of keepers alone. with 450 players taken there just isn't enough good talent left or upcomiing for bad teams to improve for years if ever.


Wrong league, phred. We only have 6 keepers here; so I'm thinking you must be considering the Dynasty league by mistake.

I'm fairly confident that this solution does address this league's problem (draft pick trading allowing elite teams to artificially and significantly go beyond the 6 keeper limit, and at the effective expense of the mid-level teams). Same vote, now that the context is clear? Or does putting this in context of the keeper league change your mind?

 
EDIT - given that you edited your comment, I guess you noted that. =) I'll count your vote as 'no' until/unless you say otherwise.

I'd love a chance to persuade you otherwise, though... I think I can argue fairly well how continuing the current system would hurt the league, and how this proposal fixes the problems I see with allowing teams like mine to keep benefiting from draft pick trading.

Edited by KingCorran, 04 April 2011 - 05:25 PM.

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#18
Bautista

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I vote for the change. Hard to see pick trading leave but i guess it must. I rather ban pick trading then watch the power stay to a select few.
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#19
stampi

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I vote for.
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#20
MarinerPride

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Going to make the offseason pretty unexciting, but I suppose it will be best for the league in the long run.

For.
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